People on the right are stark-raving pissed off that someone who is an obvious fan of their more extreme views committed the attack on Democratic Congresswoman Giffords.
There’s two angles most conservatives are taking. My favorite is the lesser used, “He’s a liberal” denial tactic. From what I’ve seen, the only political issues he has specifically mentioned multiple times is immigration (hates it) and currency (wants gold-backed money).
On the first issue, he is quintessentially not liberal. In fact, I would personally rank immigration views as one of the most important issues for defining one’s ideology (it would probably be ranked 3rd to 5th most important). Feeling comfortable with other cultures is an important aspect of what I consider to be at the core of liberalism. Liberals are supposed to be pluralistic, not traditionalist or xenophobic. But still, you can label yourself liberal and hate immigrants, and I would agree with you if I could see other overwhelming proof that you actually were.
Regarding commodity-backed currency, I don’t think the killer’s ideology clashes with liberalism. I just also know this is a popular topic in conservative discussion, and I rarely (if ever) see it come up in liberal blogs or on the Daily Show (which I think most people assume is liberal). But maybe he’s like me and trolls conservative blogs… that would explain why he got pissed off enough to go on a killing spree.
The only “evidence” I have seen that points to Loughner actually being a liberal is some girl’s tweet or something saying he was liberal. Or maybe she’s an idiot and meant libertarian, who knows.
Oh wait, and he had “The Communist Manifesto” listed among his favorite books (not to mention “Mein Kampf”). But looking at my list of favorite books on blogger… I would hate to think what assumptions people would make about me.
I listed “The Symposium,” even though I’m a straight non-drinker. I listed “Trainspotting,” though I don’t do heroin, and I’m not Scottish. I listed “American Psycho,” though I’m not a successful Wall Street banker, nor do I insert living rats I starved for days into the orifices of women I kidnapped.
So, if this gun-toting, immigrant hating, currency obsessed killer liberal is in fact gunning down Democrats for his political agenda… why did he gun down a woman who supports gun rights, opposes immigration… and is basically just like him, only she still has her marbles?
This leads us to the second angle taken by people on the right: righteous indignation. Now, no one is saying, “The right made him do it!” Nor has anyone of any merit called for beefed up gun control. But that doesn’t stop the right from knowing they fucked up and getting defensive before the accusations even start.
It’s like a child who knows they got caught. They start answering questions you didn’t even ask, while pushing things out of sight with their foot…
Sarah Palin took down a website and image of the US with crosshairs on various districts the Republicans hoped to win back in 2010. One of them was Giffords’. Giffords was even on TV during the health care debate talking about the threats she receives, vandalism to her office, and even the image posted by Palin.
Oh, and Palin announced the site on twitter and facebook with her catch phrase, “Don’t retreat, reload!”
Frankly, that kind of talk makes me want to… make fun of her. Below is a pic of her being triple teamed by three invisible men:
It all begs the question… how would Palin feel if someone drew crosshairs on her? What about her family? Oh, now I have her attention. Hold on, an unmarked van just pulled up outside. Are those helicopters…?
You wanna know what I think? I doubt it, but I’m telling you anyway. I think this kid got kicked out of school recently, probably because he’s a sandwich short of a full picnic, and he saw this Congresswoman’s event as an opportunity to make a public spectacle and go out with a statement. I think he planned to kill himself, too, but we all get the joy of watching a long, drawn out, and cathartic trial… for once. Man am I sick of all these psychos offing themselves before we can smack ’em around a bit.
I am also sick and tired of the same Hollywood comment made by action movie aficionados: “if she had a gun, this wouldn’t have happened.” She owns guns, so I guess gun-ownership doesn’t make you bulletproof. Guns don’t save you from a deranged person whipping out a pistol right in your face and firing. If this is the level of discourse you have to bring, please go rent “The Matrix” and shut the fuck up while the adults are talking.
And wah wah for making all the firearm faggots all butthurt. Go be gay for guns on a day that isn’t immediately following a shooting, you fucking unbelievable wastes of space. All I hear from these inbred morons is, “You’re exploiting a tragedy!” No, you’re exploiting a tragedy, again, as your personal venue to extol the virtues of owning a deadly weapon. Be like Muslims after 9/11, just lay low for a while and take your lickings.
Here’s the reality: the right encourages gun-ownership and routinely uses violent language and imagery in their campaigning. “Buh buh buh buh but,” whoa there, read everything I have to say. I don’t care if people own guns, and people are free to say whatever they want… but that also means I get to point out with my right to free speech how horrible society is becoming because of it.
We shouldn’t be encouraging people to own guns. They should be legal for those who want them, but we shouldn’t be disseminating lies about how “safe” guns make people or society (factually inaccurate claims, one and all). What’s more, while people like myself and possibly even Sarah Palin can see that gun imagery is a metaphor… some people can’t. Would it kill you to use sports or something else equally manly and indicative of how huge you want people to believe your penis to be? [Palin’s is huge, probably from having so many kids.]
Freedom isn’t about rights alone, it’s about responsibility. I don’t want Democrats to get the idea they have to infringe on our freedom of speech simply because certain public individuals on the right are oblivious to the fact that their rhetoric has consequences.
Are Democrats going to use this as a way of leveraging their agenda? I doubt it, because they’re huge pussies. But I can tell you this: the right already is.
Personally, I don’t care what his political views are. The reason he did this had less to do with what he believed and more to do with the overall climate of discourse in this country, which has devolved into a violent, schoolyard battle. Maybe if people weren’t shouting for the need to get a gun all the time, it wouldn’t magically land within the minds of mentally unstable individuals.
I know, it’s a lot of responsibility for public figures to consider how each of their words might be interpreted by any of 300 million people… but you can pretty much narrow it down by saying that we shouldn’t make public threats or glorify deadly weapons.
I really didn’t want this to be about guns, because I’m sick of that conversation. But for all the conservatives out there, I can explain how I feel about guns so that you all can understand. You know how you don’t want guys making out in public, but you don’t care what they do in the privacy of their own home? Yeah, that, only I won’t stand in the way of you gay-marrying your gun.
I think a lot of this use of language comes from rural life. I know it may seem shocking, but I think Philadelphia softened my use of language. I moved there from suburban Indiana, where every other joke is about a nigger hanging from a tree. There was a golf course not more than 10 minutes from my house in Indiana called “Hanging Tree Golf Course.” I wish I could make this shit up.
But you can afford be that racially insensitive in Indiana, because there are no black people. Same with Jews, and until recently, Hispanics. In fact, I think the little bit of Latin exposure made them even more racist, because most people in Indiana had no opinion on immigration until the late 90’s when they started showing up. And it’s always about how they can’t speak English.
Yesser, them spics makin’ me madder than a june bug in a boiler, boy howdy.
You ever notice it’s people who are hanging on to their understanding of the English language by their finger tips that seem to get all up-in-arms about immigrants not speaking the Queen’s English? I think this is because even native speakers find these rednecks to be hard to understand, so they’re damn near incomprehensible to a foreigner.
Well, I’ve rambled enough. If you’re going to criticize something, please try to realize my thesis was this: Republicans wouldn’t like it they were treated the way they treat Democrats. In fact, I question whether any of our freedoms would remain intact if Democrats were to do such a thing… but that would require Dems to have balls, so we’re safe.
The real debate lies in your 15th pragraph and this one: "Personally, I don’t care what his political views are. The reason he did this had less to do with what he believed and more to do with the overall climate of discourse in this country, which has devolved into a violent, schoolyard battle."
ReplyDeleteClimate shmilate. People like him have existed and will always exist regardless of what our perception of political climate and discourse are.
Not under estimating the power of political language - Lord knows here in Quebec nationalists talk nasty at times - for it does matter; words do matter, but as you showed and I argue on my blog, he was a mix of nonsense that stretched beyond politics.
He wasn't liberal, conservative or anything else. Capiche? Palin insert notwithstanding.
Last, about rural Indiana. Same crap in rural Quebec and rural parts of Europe I've witnessed. You seem hung up on the fact there are such people who exist. Newsflash: They exist EVERYWHERE.
It had nothing to do with the political discourse in this country. Your casting false aspersions without any evidence to back up your claim. You have clearly joined the lunatic Left fringe with making sh*t out of thin air without any proof to back up your false claims. Very irresponsible of you... The shooter was troubled, mentally unstable, and psychotic and that is the reason for his shooting 19 individuals.
ReplyDeleteoverall climate of discourse in this country, which has devolved into a violent, schoolyard battle."
ReplyDeleteThis from a guy who claims to know history? Look back at American political discourse in the 19th century, for crying out loud. It was the epitome of vitriolic, and far more nasty rhetoric flew (and that not just from the "fringe", as many bloggers are labeled today, but from the mainstream of politicians and newspapers of the time) than you see today from the Demopublican Party and statist "mainstream" news media.
Climate shmilate. People like him have existed and will always exist regardless of what our perception of political climate and discourse are.
ReplyDeleteThose people always exist, but what society exposes them to and how they are treated is a major factor in what happens. When this sort of thing happens, I don't think, "There should be less guns" or "People should watch what they say," I think, "Society really let them down."
He wasn't liberal, conservative or anything else.
I disagree. He was lots of things. I think the issues he was most passionate about were by and large conservative cornerstones. We're also finding out he's probably an atheist of some kind (possibly agnostic), and a pot smoker. He is all of these things, but I think we'll find what drove him do this was probably his mental illness compounded with personal stress.
Last, about rural Indiana. Same crap in rural Quebec and rural parts of Europe I've witnessed. You seem hung up on the fact there are such people who exist. Newsflash: They exist EVERYWHERE.
I know, that's why my job is never done.
Nikk, I didn't say it sunk recently, I'm just saying where it's at now, and since I was politically aware for that matter. I think there have been periods of intelligent debate in the past, and I think you would agree that both sides today are not even worth listening to anymore, so I simply deduced that things had devolved. But you're probably right, it will likely always be a petty war of words.
ReplyDeleteI think it's always bad when people are inciting violence, regardless of the era or country. If a citizen did it, they would be investigated, but because it's political figures, it's "campaigning." Honestly, can you imagine the response if I posted a hit list online? I considered doing it as a joke, but stopped myself when I realized I would never make it on the inside.
Teresa: Your casting false aspersions without any evidence to back up your claim.
ReplyDeleteWhat aspersions and claim do you refer to?
You have clearly joined the lunatic Left fringe with making sh*t out of thin air without any proof to back up your false claims.
What did I make up?
Very irresponsible of you... The shooter was troubled, mentally unstable, and psychotic and that is the reason for his shooting 19 individuals.
Oh I see, you didn't read what I wrote. This explains the other stuff.
For me, the case is still weak as a whole - until we find out more.
ReplyDeleteI see a mumbo-jumbo of thoughts. Assigning which belong to what ideologiy seems pointless.
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even know himself.
I have to agree with T.C. None of these insane killers seem to have any coherent political views or consistent philosophy.
ReplyDeleteSomeone on Twitter (if I remember rightly where I saw it) used the word "anarchist" to describe these kinds of people, but this guy, from what we can learn so far of his political outlook, was certainly no anarchist. Just another attempt to equate anarchism with chaos and random violence. Pure ignorance!
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even know himself.
ReplyDeleteI suspect the same thing.
He's definitely not anarchist, he wants the government to stop immigration. Any decent anarchist worth their salt doesn't even respect the notion of borders.
Oh yeah, and TC: Like I said in the post, how he identified himself or what side of the political spectrum his beliefs actually lay doesn't matter to me. I would be more interested in know what he watched, what he listened to, what he read. And certainly not to censor them, I'm just curious.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm saying is... Nikk should check the IP log of site visitors and see if a regular in Tuscon never comes anymore...
It would also be interesting if he never saw the Palin crosshairs map. I never had before, though I know why Palin would take it down in light of these events. She has more taste than I would have thought before.