Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) said they will introduce a bill on Thursday to let states legalize, regulate, tax, and control marijuana without federal interference.-Marijuana legalization bill to be introduced
Wednesday, June 22, 2011
Ron Paul To Introduce Bill To Decriminalize Marijuana Tomorrow!
Ron Paul is the only Republican co-sponsor. How sad that the party of "small government" doesn't support this. And how about the assholes at Fox News, including the disgusting Lou Dobbs, who belittle the whole idea of legalizing or decriminalizing drugs and laugh about it all while tens of thousands of Americans rot in our hellhole prisons for non-violent drug "crimes". "Fiddling around the edges"? The drug war costs us billions in tax dollars and ruins millions of lives! Shove it where the sun don't shine, Michael Goodwin, you dead tree media, statist piece of shit!
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I'm Canadian so this doesn't directly affect me, but I think some statements you wrote are over-reactions and quite untrue.
ReplyDeleteThen again, your entire post is pretty much just stating your opinion.
So I'll state mine too! I'm against the legalization of marijuana, and I'm happy it's still illegal in Canada. People need better things to do. :)
Wallflower, on what basis do you think it it your right to tell others what to put in their bodies? Are you also in favor of outlawing alcohol? Hundreds of thousands die each year as a direct result of alcohol use. Can you please tell us how many die from smoking pot?
ReplyDeleteAlso, you seem to believe that wanting to legalize something means you have to approve of it, which is hardly the case.
Just stating my opinion? Sorry, but the facts are clearly on MY side! Billions of dollars down the rat hole, police state tactics on the part of governments, erosion of civil liberties (something I would think an atheist like yourself would be concerned about) and yes, lives destroyed and ruined.
People do need better things to do, but they may as well be high while we wait for them.
ReplyDeleteWhen did I say it is my right to tell others what to put in your bodies? If you want to smoke pot, do crack or heroin, by all means do it in your home. It doesn't have to be legalized so that even more people get hooked on it and spend all their money on it.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all, this isn't about alcohol. That's an entirely different case. You could bring up a million "other" issues but we're not even talking about those.
Also, you seem to believe that wanting to legalize something means YOU have to approve of it. Is this really about majorities here? ;)
Also, your facts are clearly missing things. Are the only things illegal in this world things that may kill you? No, obviously not.
Marijuana does and has destroyed lives. People may not become physically addicted, but they become habitually/psychologically addicted to the drug. People spend thousands and thousands of dollars a year on it. They use it every day and many of them become unproductive because of it. It reduces learning ability, and studies have shown that regular users of marijuana do more poorly in school.
Marijuana smokers do risk having some physical problems, including lung cancer. It also affects the bodies hormones, AND recent studies found last year state that marijuana is linked to testicular cancer as well.
That's just some of it.
Hey wallflower, long time no see.
ReplyDeleteI studied pharmacy and did a lot of volunteer work with drug rehab clinics. Drug abuse is an issue near and dear to my heart, as many people I have known have used them to ill effect.
However, I think one has to confront a few basic truths about drugs and the law before one decides drugs should be outlawed.
Drugs are freely available, despite being illegal. Legalizing drugs (be it just cannabis or all drugs) will not increase users. This is not speculation, it is an observed fact that we can see from nations who have decriminalized drug use. Legalizing drugs does not increase use.
Criminalizing drug use also discourages treatment. People are afraid that they will be locked up for coming forward and being honest about their drug use. Drug laws encourage a drug culture that lies and conceals use, instead of being open and honest.
Illicit drugs are also less safe than legalized, regulated drugs. The health effects actually decrease for users (who will be using regardless of legality) when drugs are not crminalized. And perhaps the second greatest side effect of drug use (behind only death) would be completely eliminated: imprisonment.
Perhaps most importantly, ending the drug war would save billions of tax-payer dollars and thousands of lives, especially in nations like Mexico, where drug cartel violence has spilled over into the streets.
I do understand your position, I really do, but if you oppose drug use and want to get people off of drugs, the current system has clearly failed (and in my view, has made things worse), and I think it's time for a change.
I wasn't talking about every drug. I was talking about marijuana. You didn't seem to mention that once.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I said I believe that if it were legal, more people would be smoking marijuana. I believe so because not only would it be cheaper and easier to access, but people (especially younger people) would more-likely try something that their government says is O.K. rather than not. Hence more people getting hooked on it. Why do you believe that if it were legal, more people wouldn't get hooked on it?
And once again, I was and am talking about marijuana.
Well, I do mention cannabis once in particular, but I think the issue is universally applicable.
ReplyDeleteYou can think that more people would smoke cannabis if it were legal and "their government says is O.K.," but the facts don't support your belief. Where cannabis has been outright legalized or simply decriminalized, use by both adults and children decreased. I'm sorry you have not done the research on the matter and simply go by your gut feeling, but your assumption is factually incorrect.
Places like Holland, where cannabis is regulated, have much lower child use. Licensed and controlled cannabis bars serve adult patrons only, as opposed to some drug dealer on a corner who wouldn't dream of carding you and may suggest you try some harder drugs (since pot is harmless and the government lied about that, so maybe heroin is harmless too, right?).
I do appreciate your sentiment and the fact that you're looking out for others, but in this case, I think your instincts are a bit misguided.
Actually, considering every country is different and has different influences within their culture, just because the legalization of pot in a European country had certain results, doesn't mean the same would happen in every country. I don't think you should be using the stats of a small country in Europe as FACTS of what you believe will happen in America.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention, there is no way if telling how many people even smoke pot in a country, whether it's legal or not. Your "facts" are likely based on polls or studies, and may not even be as accurate as you believe.
I appreciate you trying to prove me wrong with your "facts" also, but they're not really facts. You just said that pot is harmless, I just listed reasons above why it isn't.
No, I said that a drug user has access to harder drugs through illicit sales, so making cannabis illegal creates the "gateway" property of the drug. The perception of most people who smoke "pot" is that it's harmless, and it has led many drugs users to move on to harder substances because the means are there (via dealers) and the idea that other drugs might also be "harmless" appears.
ReplyDeleteCannabis was legal and used openly in the US until the 20th century without incident. Presidents grew and used cannabis, from Washington to Lincoln. It's criminalization was largely the result of early economic manipulation and later a culture war Nixon waged on hippies.
I might point out that your criteria for the legality of cannabis cuold be applied to make many things illegal. Sky diving, motorcycles, auto racing, sports... I dare say even art is dangerous. Art has destroyed lives, people are addicted to it psychologically. Some spend thousands on their art and get very little else done because of it. And art students are notoriously unemployable. I'm sure you're also familiar with the ill health effects of performing some art, such as the lethal substances in many paints.
But ultimately how people spend their time and what people decide to do with their lives is not our business. You can make blowing pot smoke in someone's face illegal, but legislating personal use of a substance has been one of the greatest social and economic mistakes of Western Civilization.
I don't drink, but I can recognize that Prohibition was an enormous mistake. The fact that you can't see why cannabis is no different makes me question if perhaps you're a bit high.
I never said that it should stay illegal because of a few of the physical effects it can cause. I never said people can't spend their time doing what they want to do with their lives.
ReplyDeleteI said that I think it would be worse if it became legal. Neither you or I can prove that right or wrong. It's an opinion.
Once again, I think that since drugs like pot are harder to get, more expensive, AND illegal meaning punishment if caught... people are therefore more turned off by it and don't do it. I think humanity doesn't need it and is better off without it, and I think legalizing it would mean more people would become habitually addicted instead.
I'd rather see people spend less time and money on something like more, and more into more important things in life. That's just my own opinion and why I feel it would be worse off to legalize it.
Thanks for sharing your opinions too though.
Oh, I also thought I would address your desire to write of any sort of social research as baseless speculation...
ReplyDeleteThere is a problem in counting users, especially in a system where it is illegal. Most estimates are conservative, because people will lie and say they don't when it's illegal. As a result, our estimates are probably low while it's illegal. And yet, use does go down when those same methods are used after decriminalization, when people are less likely to lie.
So we under count illegal users, and yet it still decreases when legalized... very interesting.
It's easy for you to make these comments when living in a country that has largely decriminalized cannabis (Canada is remarkably less strict on the matter). In America, I worry about cops in military gear bursting into my home, hauling me off to jail, and shooting my dogs, even though I don't smoke, because cops get the wrong house during raids all the time (probably the result of all those drugs that magically disappea from police evidence lockers).
The Drug War is not worth living in a militarized police state.
I'm not sure you understand the fundamental difference between "opinions" and "fallacies."
ReplyDeleteOpinion: you don't like cannabis and you want people to not use it.
Fallacy: Cannabis should be illegal.
How about this, because I feel like you keep backtracking or ignoring ideas. I'll ask you one question, and if you answer it, we can pursue a single line of thought. Deal?
Why should cannabis be illegal?
Once again, I understand your thoughts on what would happen but I do NOT think that would be the case in America (or Canada). I still believe that the numbers would rise.
ReplyDeleteI already stated plenty of my reasons. I wrote about how I believe it's a waste of time, money, and potential. As well as the small physical affects, too. I've seen plenty of young people who became habitually addicted and S.W.E.D! (they proudly exclaimed to) and they ended up spending a few grand on it and in the end regretted it.
It's just stupid, and I hope that one day people stop worshipping it and discover that life has much more to offer.
Your arguments for wanting pot to be legalized are also opinions.
If I'm understanding you, we should make things illegal if they are a "waste of time, money, and potential," especially if they have "small physical" consequences. Why do we draw the line at cannabis? Alcohol and cigarettes kill more people, should we outlaw them?
ReplyDeleteWell firstly this isn't about making things illegal.. it's about not making them legal. Secondly, that's not where I draw my line, but I'm not talking about other issues right now at all. And no, I don't think much differently about alcohol or cigarettes in case you're trying to make me look like a hypocrite.
ReplyDeleteSo you just support the status quo, even if it's sending people who are committing no real crime to jail at a cost to tax payers?
ReplyDeleteIf they know it's illegal, then why can't they stay away from it and live without it? ;)
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't the serfs just shut up and work the land for the king?
ReplyDeleteYou could bring up a billion other topics, but when it comes to marijuana, if they know it's illegal, why can't they just live without it? Or are they psychologically addicted?
ReplyDeleteSuppose they are addicted. Does this mean they deserve to be locked up and raped in prison?
ReplyDeleteNope, they should go for counselling or some sort of therapy to get rid of their addiction.
ReplyDeleteIf they don't want to get rid of their addiction, then they should go find a country that will let them waste away!
You basically defined "decriminalization" there.
ReplyDeleteI found your second comment hilarious, because Canada is where Americans go in that situation.
Not to speak out of turn, but I think I have a compromise. How about you support Canada sentencing treatment for drug offenders, and persistent offenders will be deported... to America, where drugs will be legalized.
ReplyDeleteIt's win-win.
Sure. I'd love to see what happens once pot is legalized in America. Maybe some Canadian potheads will decide to live in America instead!
ReplyDelete